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# Friday, March 11, 2005
What the "Classic VB Petition" really shows

So, they're not only asking Microsoft to create a new version of old VB (i.e., not .NET), but they're also asking it to be integrated into the VS.NET v8+. Some have cited C#/C++ as an example of this. 

HAHAHA! Man, if this doesn't show how clueless some VB programmers are, nothing does. I mean, seriously, come on! They actually expect MS to say “ok, sure we'll make VB6.5 v2005 and go away from managed code”? And they think that integrating VB6 right into VS.NET will be a piece of cake? This proves that many VB devs really are clueless when it comes to designing apps and think that there's some magical power that just makes everything work. The sad part of this is that some of these people are MVPs... I thought that MVPs generally had a relatively high knowledge level and wouldn't come up with silliness like this...

Friday, March 11, 2005 4:53:14 AM UTC  #    Comments [13]  |  Trackback Tracked by:
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Friday, March 11, 2005 9:38:03 PM UTC
Haw haw.....I don't believe you put "VB" and "Programmers" in the same sentence....isn't that an...what's that thing called....ummm...oh yeah...OXIMORON!!
Friday, March 11, 2005 10:38:02 PM UTC
Sorry to break it to you muchira, but it's actually oxymoron. ;-)
Saturday, March 12, 2005 1:05:07 AM UTC
Heh. Why the f#ck can't these idiots just let VB die? It was a good idea that went horribly wrong years ago. It needs to die. I wish MS would just stop supporting it entirely, no extended support nothing just "sorry it's a piece of cr@p and we are tired of supporting it...bye bye". Then watch all the millions of VB idiots scramle like lemmings when they realize they weren't developers at all just monkeys pushing buttons and now the buttons are gone. What will the monkeys do? I say send them back to the zoo.
Sunday, March 13, 2005 3:31:07 AM UTC
I have created my own petition:
Tuesday, March 15, 2005 8:19:26 PM UTC
I really don't understand what the heck they are talking about. Use c# or vb.net and get over it. The major objection has been distributing the framework, but that is almost a non-issue anymore (and will be a non issue in LH and after.)
Wednesday, March 16, 2005 10:42:29 AM UTC
Ah, the usual myths being put about. Do try to keep vaguely connected with the facts. Take a look here for the reasons behind the petition

Wednesday, March 16, 2005 2:53:09 PM UTC
How's this for a myth: VB support is not over! There. You just don't get free support. That's it. Microsoft has shown HUGE backwards compatability support, so this whole thing that one day things will stop working is a nonsense argument.
Friday, March 18, 2005 11:57:33 AM UTC
if you think the main issue is 2 free support incidents, then you are deceiving yourself. It's about when Microsoft breaks things, will they fix them? And Microsoft does accidentally break things from time to time.

The Format() Function Gives Different Results in Windows XP Than in Windows 2000

They fixed it in a service pack to Windows XP. Would they still do that when VB6 finally goes off support?

VB6 projects need a way to be supported on current development tools and platforms. Microsoft hasn't done this.
Friday, March 18, 2005 3:42:57 PM UTC
So you expect them to support legacy apps forever? Yea, well, hey, good luck on that one. What's wrong with extended support until 2008?
Friday, March 18, 2005 6:51:22 PM UTC
No, I expect them to provide a practical migration path to current products. You won't be all that pleased when they bring out a successor to the .NET platform (as they will in due course) and change the languages so that you have to rewrite all your .NET code in order to target the new platform.

If they could do that for VB6, what's to stop it from becoming a habit?
Friday, March 18, 2005 7:09:12 PM UTC
Hmm... maybe... maybe because VB6 was never a platform MS really built much on eh? I'm not at all afraid of them replacing .NET and making it obsolete. If they decide having a CLR was a bad idea, *they* will be the ones poorly off. See, VB6 was an "all-in-one" package, and .NET is so uncompletely like that.

At any rate, now you are sounding reasonable, asking for a better upgrade path.
Sunday, April 10, 2005 4:40:37 AM UTC
I use the tool best suited for the job. VB was on my short list. Still is.

What the vast majority of dotNET programmers fail to realize is scale. When the current crop of young experts were still learning to suckle, C was king. Sure, the geeky accountants still clung to COBOL and corporate striped engineers were mired in Fortran but everyone seemed to have a copy of K&C, later Stroustrup. Not just systems programmers used C.

And that was the problem.

A multi-user computer system and its maintenance were the targets for C. Then the users of that system started using it. Then everyone else did. C++ is the computer scientists answer to many of the perceived shortcomings in C along with a bit of structure and a whole lot of standard code. It was a long time in coming.

I'll credit the first guy who had to port code from one architecture to another as the originator of the runtime idea. Anyone who has done significant work in this area has probably designed half of one in their head as they mindlessly added support for yet another vendor. At any rate, QuickBASIC from Microsoft was really something (as far as interpreted languages went) for the hot Personal (and non-enterprise business) Computer market. Version 2.0's manual was a masterpiece. Version 4.5 was RAD. BASIC 7 was complete.

Visual Basic 1 for both DOS and Windows were ground breaking. Windows without graphic card issues (hehe), events, mice? Wow, someone who thinks a loop is a hula-hoop might be able to use the stuff made with this thing. [queue some non-collegiate training program startups here]

For all of the changes made, all the old code worked. Sure, a couple of things broke as the years went by and version numbers grew but the level of backwards compatibility was phenomenal.

Enter Java and a real threat to Microsofts portable language and long-term computing device strategies (you know, cell phones, game boxes, MP3 players, set-top boxes). With CORBA lurking in the wings as a viable interop layer, some college guy building a kernel based on what he learned from Minix, and Microsoft still stinging from a silly thing called the Internet becoming something after all, two main goals seem to have been solidified at HQ.

Build up an Intellectual Property base the likes of which no industry had ever seen (IBM helps, a lot. No malice here, I like money too).

Create a unified, object oriented layer to all core Microsoft technologies available on the Windows platform by defining a universal target and providing complete libraries mapped to various high-level languages. Hello CLR.

It seems to be working fairly well, discounting Linux.

Please remember that, from paragraph five ;), VisualBasic compatible code is being written. Professional programmers looking to deliver large, user friendly products in a timely and cost-effective manner are using it. Some use it exclusively, some only for quickies. Teachers are using it. Students are learning it. Business users begin to dabble, some go on to build mission critical systems using it. Hobbyists are using it. Many of these people still use it. The user base grew with the PC market. Microsoft added VBA to everything and encouraged its adoption. Scale fellas.

Looking forward to the screams of pain when Avalon hits. Night all.

(BTW, dumping a dotNET program and rebuilding usable code is fairly straight forward. Have fun with the keygen crowd.)
Friday, May 13, 2005 1:27:14 AM UTC
I totally agree with the guy before. I work on C# right now, i'm MCSD VB6 certified, i worked a lot on js during the glorious times of asp (you know...to make itwork better for the users and avoid deployement crap), i made some accountancy sw on VBA 4...
I mean, i went through different phases...and the day i saw windows 3.1 i remember i said "hey! Where are the folders?!"

Now in the company i work we are sending Unix people on retirement. I'm sorry because a lot of them are very smart guys. They just know different things from what i know.

So i asked myself: how would it be when i'll be the dinosaur here?

Cheers :)
Vincent barbarino
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